Lolli
Obsessive
Posts: 243
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Post by Lolli on Feb 17, 2014 17:22:36 GMT
If Danny's vocal issues are due to a heart condition I wasn't aware of that and that's very unfortunate. I also applaud him for continuing because he must be aware of how bad he's sounding. I'm not saying that as though it were fact because, frankly, I don't know. What I do know is that he has a heart condition that has numerous symptoms and has almost certainly worsened as he has got older because that's the nature of that sort of thing. My best friend died age 33 a week after OON was released having had a massive heart attack because the hospital couldn't shock him back into a normal rhythm. Now I'm not saying Danny's condition is the same because I simply don't know, but that sort of thing makes you stop and think.
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Post by disappointed on Feb 17, 2014 17:51:15 GMT
Pavoritti with the cardio-respiratory system of a Tour D' France cyclist could not have been heard over the awful sound production of Inverness.
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Post by db7even on Feb 17, 2014 18:44:39 GMT
I know nobody means offence - we're all here because we're big fans, but i can't help but think that Danny, who we know suffers from anxiety, could do without reading some of these comments. We know he's never had the "best" voice (what even determines that?), but that forms part of the identity that is Embrace. I hope that he'll be back on form for when I see him in Birmingham, but more importantly, i hope him and the band are just happy being back together and making music - i know i am.
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Post by richielumsdon on Feb 17, 2014 19:38:41 GMT
I don't mean any offence what so ever, Embrace have played an important role in my life but at the same time if you're the front man and focal point of a band you've got to be able to accept criticism when it comes your way. It's not like people are taking cheap pot shots for no reason, his voice at the moment sounds awful that's there for everyone to hear, now if that's to do with his vocal technique, lifestyle, preparation, nerves or a bit of everything we don't know. Nothing would make me happier than for him to be back to his late 90's best come the next tour but listening to him try and hit the high notes at the end of Ashes in Inverness was heartbreaking.
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edders2000
New
For an hour I held the moon on a string...
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Post by edders2000 on Feb 17, 2014 19:52:58 GMT
As he's the main songwriter without him there's no Embrace, and as I said his voice wasn't a problem up until about 2006. He's also a great front man. His vocals seemed to really nose dive somewhere around the time they recorded WAYF. If you listen to This New Day then compare it to WAYF and some of the later B-side's (One Luck, Thank God You Were Mean to Me etc...) the drop in the quality of the vocals is really noticeable and they don't seem to have improved in the time they've been away. Lets hope these recent shows are just a blip and he's back on form for the next tour.... This is basically spot on ^^^ Never really bothered me to be honest, but I could understand if you've never seen them before it'd be disappointing. Still can't wait to see them again tho!
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Post by sonic on Feb 17, 2014 20:42:20 GMT
Well, I have so much to say on this I dont know where to start. I absolutely adore Embrace, always have done. Their music means so much to me, and have always gone the extra mile to see them whether that be gigs, secret gigs or signings.
Whilst Dannys vocals have always been poor I have never found it a problem at any gigs. In fact embrace gigs remain the best gigs I have ever and probably will ever see.
Now, to last night (tin hat on here). The sound in the place was attrocious, not sure if that is the way the band set it up to hide Dannys voice. Later on when the vocals were slightly more clear, his voice was totally finished. Also miss the interaction with Danny. He was THE best front man in days past but yesterday they just played the tunes and bolted. Let me say I enjoyed the show but more out of a loyalty where i will always enjoy seeing the band. A small piece of me died yesterday as powerful vocals and charisma were their big draw.
To finish on a positive, the new tune follow you home was proper catchy, and I got a cheeky wave from Mickey. All in all another Embrace gig I will not forget.
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Post by tmxtony on Feb 17, 2014 21:06:00 GMT
I've wrestled with mentioning this either on here or on Facebook so far, but it's been on my mind since I heard the YouTube clips.
It is clear though that something has happened with Danny's speech whilst the band have been away and I think it may be related, in part if not totally, to the criticism of recent gigs.
I've noticed in recent interviews that whilst Danny seems really happy and excited that he also now has a stammer, usually on a hard 't' sound at the start of a word. I was hoping this wouldn't happen when he's singing but I've heard it on the clips of recent shows and another post had made reference to Danny 'trying to sing but the sound not coming out'.
We can only presume this is going to knock his confidence and could be causing nerves to affect the rest of his singing.
This aside everything's great. We have the band back, I personally love the new music I've heard so far, and it seems there are a lot of people who still care that Embrace are making music.
At gigs there will be some fans who don't care about the vocals, and there'll be those that do. I don't really know how I feel about it but it does worry me before I see them in Manchester.
If some fans think they've seen a disappointing gig they should be able to say so and I don't think we should pretend everything's fine just because we're happy the band is back.
Sorry, I don't really know where I'm going with all this. I just wanted to put down what I've heard and what my thoughts are.
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Post by Dools on Feb 17, 2014 22:18:50 GMT
I am really looking forward to seeing Embrace again after all three years. Used to be an uberfan and must have seen them line at least 30 times. These YouTube videos are worrying. I'm not sure how accurately they reflect the overall sound but the vocals do sound awful. I could live with it because of my history with the band and how much their music has meant to me but if I wasn't such a big fan it would almost be refund territory if it sounds like Inverness...I really did not enjoy writing that.
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Post by lucinda on Feb 18, 2014 8:27:13 GMT
Although robust discussion/ criticism relating to Danny's vocals has been an on going issue for years, I'm really saddened that it's such a focus so early on in the tour/ come back. I have to admit that I too have noticed the stammering problem during interviews. I teach social skills/speech therapy to kids with speech and communication problems and I know that anxiety can affect speech problems considerably. I would imagine that Danny is under considerable pressure to deliver at the moment, and his medical condition may ,or may not, be playing a part in the problem. I also wonder , bearing in mind the decision to release Refugees as the first single, if there is a plan for Richard to share the primary vocal role to take the pressure off Danny to some degree. If, as some people are suggesting, the live sound has been set up to 'disguise' issues with Danny's vocals it appears to be back-firing somewhat. I'm no expert on these things but maybe a more pleasing solution would be for Richard to support Danny's voice with additional vocals?
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Post by sonic on Feb 18, 2014 8:38:37 GMT
I think people would appreciate a Danny interview where he summarised the situation with vocals, speech etc. As much as he most likely does not want to talk about it, I do feel as a fan who is prepared to spend a lot of money and time on the band, I would like to know, and in some ways deserve to know.
I should also say, Richard looks as at ease as he has ever done on the stage. Also when both Richard and Danny sang in unison it sounded really good, made me wonder if the band has missed a trick for years.
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mo
New
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Post by mo on Feb 18, 2014 10:30:32 GMT
I was at the King Tuts gig, effectively their first live gig in 8 years and thought the vocals were great - Yes one or 2 flat notes but who cares? Would rather have that than listen to a backing tape like a lot of supposed top "artists" do nowadays.
The fact that they played 5 gigs in about 6 days would have impacted on vocal delivery after not playing live for so long -so maybe give Danny a break?
One thing that really pisses me off is the people who go to a gig and record the whole thing on their mobile. Go to the gig, enjoy the music and live in the moment- Of course it is not going to sound great on You Tube- it will likely have been recorded by a drunkard on a device that is not designed to be used as a professional recording device. Check out The White Bear programme of the Black Mirror series by Charlie Brooker for some great satire on our constant need to record and boradcast every second of our live.
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Post by sonic on Feb 18, 2014 10:59:23 GMT
I was at the King Tuts gig, effectively their first live gig in 8 years and thought the vocals were great - Yes one or 2 flat notes but who cares? Would rather have that than listen to a backing tape like a lot of supposed top "artists" do nowadays. The fact that they played 5 gigs in about 6 days would have impacted on vocal delivery after not playing live for so long -so maybe give Danny a break? One thing that really pisses me off is the people who go to a gig and record the whole thing on their mobile. Go to the gig, enjoy the music and live in the moment- Of course it is not going to sound great on You Tube- it will likely have been recorded by a drunkard on a device that is not designed to be used as a professional recording device. Check out The White Bear programme of the Black Mirror series by Charlie Brooker for some great satire on our constant need to record and boradcast every second of our live. I think you are basing your views on your gig only Mo. Let me be clear, I am biased in favour of the band and Danny, so saying this does not come easy. Inverness sound and vocals was actually at a level where I could understand people leaving. I agree I don't mind (in fact I quite like) a few flat notes, and I would rather have the 'live' sound than that of backing 'tapes' (you are showing your age there lol). But there is a point which a band should not go below, 5 gigs or not. As a big fan, and appreciating Danny's health issues, I feel I more than give him a break, and my views are based on watching the band live not on a mobile recording. One of my favourite Embrace efforts is their accoustic version of Ashes at the Oxygen festival, where there are some real bum notes, but that is why I love it, he almost loses his way with the passion for the tune. They will really need address this for their main tour, 'cos there will be more scrutiny, and they may find themselves getting a lot of stick.
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Post by tmxtony on Feb 18, 2014 11:33:40 GMT
I was at the King Tuts gig, effectively their first live gig in 8 years and thought the vocals were great - Yes one or 2 flat notes but who cares? Would rather have that than listen to a backing tape like a lot of supposed top "artists" do nowadays. The fact that they played 5 gigs in about 6 days would have impacted on vocal delivery after not playing live for so long -so maybe give Danny a break? One thing that really pisses me off is the people who go to a gig and record the whole thing on their mobile. Go to the gig, enjoy the music and live in the moment- Of course it is not going to sound great on You Tube- it will likely have been recorded by a drunkard on a device that is not designed to be used as a professional recording device. Check out The White Bear programme of the Black Mirror series by Charlie Brooker for some great satire on our constant need to record and boradcast every second of our live. I think it's bit unfair to suggest the fans who care enough to record the lads on this tour and upload their videos are all drunkards. To upload these videos you'd assume they think they also sound good enough to do so. Whilst some people have enjoyed the gigs, others clearly have been disappointed. Also wasn't King Tuts their first gig? We can't blame 5 gigs in 6 days for his vocals if we're looking at the first date of the tour. It's upsetting to have to talk about this, I was reluctant to bring it up myself, but others are hearing what I'm hearing. I don't think we should bury our heads in the sand about it because we love the band. There's been a request on Facebook asking for any fan videos of the new songs to be taken off YouTube. That sounds fair enough, but I wonder if this thread has influenced that request?
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Lolli
Obsessive
Posts: 243
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Post by Lolli on Feb 18, 2014 11:49:19 GMT
There's been a request on Facebook asking for any fan videos of the new songs to be taken off YouTube. That sounds fair enough, but I wonder if this thread has influenced that request? No, it has nothing to do with this thread. That request was part of the deal with attending SG19 & SG20 (and, I believe, the September warm-ups) - the band have said clearly on many posts that they have no issue with folk posting footage of old stuff but they are asking nicely for people to refrain from putting new stuff up simply because they've worked bloody hard on it and care about it enough to want people's first experience to be how it was intended to sound rather than via some crappy mobile phone recording on You Tube. Simples.
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Post by tmxtony on Feb 18, 2014 12:21:07 GMT
There's been a request on Facebook asking for any fan videos of the new songs to be taken off YouTube. That sounds fair enough, but I wonder if this thread has influenced that request? No, it has nothing to do with this thread. That request was part of the deal with attending SG19 & SG20 (and, I believe, the September warm-ups) - the band have said clearly on many posts that they have no issue with folk posting footage of old stuff but they are asking nicely for people to refrain from putting new stuff up simply because they've worked bloody hard on it and care about it enough to want people's first experience to be how it was intended to sound rather than via some crappy mobile phone recording on You Tube. Simples. Like I said it's fair enough and totally understandable in that respect. I can't help thinking though if the response to the footage was almost totally positive would the request have been made? I'm merely speculating. Anyway, I would love nothing more than for Danny to get through this and produce performances we are proud of. With Refugees selling as well as it is seemingly doing the chances of TV and radio session offers will increase, and we want the lads to make the most of these opportunities if they arise. If Danny can lay down a vocal as good as Bullets I have ever faith he can.
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Lolli
Obsessive
Posts: 243
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Post by Lolli on Feb 18, 2014 12:37:10 GMT
No, it has nothing to do with this thread. That request was part of the deal with attending SG19 & SG20 (and, I believe, the September warm-ups) - the band have said clearly on many posts that they have no issue with folk posting footage of old stuff but they are asking nicely for people to refrain from putting new stuff up simply because they've worked bloody hard on it and care about it enough to want people's first experience to be how it was intended to sound rather than via some crappy mobile phone recording on You Tube. Simples. Like I said it's fair enough and totally understandable in that respect. I can't help thinking though if the response to the footage was almost totally positive would the request have been made? I'm merely speculating. No because they said from the start of the live sets, long before anyone had posted and/or commented on any of it, that they wanted for people not to hear it first as crappy mobile footage. That thinking has not altered in any way and I respect them all the more for caring enough to ask it.
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Post by sonic on Feb 18, 2014 12:40:08 GMT
It would be good to hear any comments from the folks who went to every gig and if they noticed a deterioration over the course of each show (although I appreciate there are always going to be some with their head in the sand and some who get all defensive about it).
It shouldn't be lost that it's because we love the band so much we are talking about it. Given that they reckon it is the best stuff they have written it would be a shame for it to be undermined by poor performances.
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Post by saosin on Feb 18, 2014 15:19:36 GMT
At the end of the day who wants to pay £30 to hear a singer sing out of tune?, I know I don't .
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Post by paulo on Feb 18, 2014 16:40:45 GMT
At the end of the day who wants to pay £30 to hear a singer sing out of tune?, I know I don't . I'll go see Embrace then, you sit home and watch The X Factor. Saves you £30.
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Post by MrsP on Feb 18, 2014 16:58:37 GMT
I think there are many things to take into account here. Danny, as we know, suffers not only from the heart thing, but also he's been a huge sufferer of PTSD. When you've been away for a long time, it must be bloody terrifying for the most confident of people. In Danny's case, there must be a real sense of fright - for many reasons. He might be a front man, but he is seriously lacking in self-confidence, I feel. I listened to his interview with Jo Wiley and I thought he was struggling slightly to make his words flow. I am sure that by the time the May gigs come around, he will be feeling more comfortable back in the limelight. Just reading these comments on here shows just how much pressure the fans put on the front man to be on his game. Incredible pressure for even the most self-assured and cocky - none of which Danny is. I did wonder whether Richard taking more vocal space was a way of giving Danny a break during gigs - not that I'm complaining because I like Richard's voice. However, just listen to Refugees. I don't know about you, but I love that whole song - Richard's vocal is great. BUT when Danny's vocal comes in toward the end, the hairs on my neck stand up. His tone is sublime! That's the difference between a vocalist and a front man. He has a stunning tone. It's the reason he's the frontman.
Please go easy on him guys. Understand that Embrace is Embrace because of Danny and all the flaws that come with him. The fact that he gets up there at all and delivers each song with such determination - regardless of technical perfection - is perfection itself, is it not? I would implore all fans to get on side. Support that guy and will him on. I'm sure that as he settles back in, gets his confidence back up to full whack, he'll be fantastic. He won't be technically perfect, but he will be Danny. He will be Embrace. Don't bring him down; he has a lot more to battle against than most, and I'd rather have him up there than not, exactly as he is.
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